I don't think anyone so far has come up with any theories/hypotheses of a prominent parallelism that has been noticed by many and then sort of shrugged off.
I couldn't really think of any significance until now, when I realized that this isn't an isolated incident. The parallelism should be just as obvious for Shinji's fight against Shamshel... if it's translated the right way. I didn't actually realize it until Rebuild, but Kensuke intended for his statement "Being hit like that must have really messed him up" to refer to Shamshel's attack a couple of seconds before he said it, but Toji misinterpreted him and snapped back "Shut up!", assuming Kensuke was referring to when Toji punched Shinji. The line has a double meaning that works equally well in both contexts. I saw the dub of the episode first, and unfortunately ADV messed up the ambiguity by having Kensuke specifically say something along the lines of "That punch you gave him must have really messed him up".
It should be obvious at this point that Shinji's interaction with humans is supposed to be mirrored in his interaction with the Angels. The parallelisms get a bit less clear after the first two, but I don't think the concept was abandoned. One of the few things Matt Greenfield got right was the double meaning of Ritsuko's (or was it Misato's?) statement that they learned a lot about "the enemy" after Shinji and Asuka's fight with Gaghiel. Again, the Angel battle directly corresponded to Shinji's interaction with Asuka during the fight.
But wait! There was another fight between those two! What about Ramiel? This one isn't as obvious, and I wouldn't have thought to look for it if I... hadn't... thought to... look for it. This fight is clearly about his interaction with Rei, but is there a specific parallelism there?
This is my guess: Shinji's first attempt to socialize with Rei was a complete "miss". When he was in Rei's apartment she pretty much ignored him, and when he badmouthed Gendo he got slapped IN THE FACE. His first attack on Ramiel was a literal miss as well. However, in both cases, the second attempt succeeded (simultaneously, in this case). This one may be a bit more of a stretch, but it's all I can think of at the moment. The rest seem much more obvious now that I think about it:
Israfel: The whole ordeal is one big parallelism. It's the most flagrant one in the whole series.
Sandalphon: Ha ha! Thermal expansion.
Matariel: "Let's work together to accomplish our goal."
Sahaquiel: I don't remember this one very well. Someone else find the parallelism for me. It almost certainly has to do with Misato in this case.
Ireul: I'm not sure if this one really counts, since it wasn't actually an Eva battle.
Leliel: This fight is all about Shinji vs. himself. There's not necessarily a parallelism here since the human aspect and the angel aspect have become one.
Bardiel: Shinji certainly hit Toji back rather nicely... I have a feeling that wasn't the intended prominent parallelism, though, since that was so long ago.
Zeruel: Shinji finally starts to stand up for himself and make his own decisions right as Unit 01 obtains the S2 Engine. Greenfield or McCoy might have mentioned this one as well.
Arael: Same as with Leliel, but with Asuka instead of Shinji in this case.
Armisael: I'm guessing it has something to do with Rei's death and rebirth vs. Armisael's attempt to regenerate the dead Angels.
Tabris: Here, the parallels finally culminate in that Shinji's fight with the Angel is his interaction with a human. Even more than with Leliel and Arael, "the two have become one".
ITT we poke holes in my statements.
(Much) Further Analysis of the Sachiel/Misato Parallelism
Moderator: Board Staff
Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion and abide by them.
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion and abide by them.
(Much) Further Analysis of the Sachiel/Misato Parallelism
"Today?... hmm... today... right... Um... I'm just gonna wing it." -Guess who
- BrikHaus
- Dokutah Tenma
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Feb 11, 2006
- Location: Attending Physician - AKA: Hell
- Contact:
I wish this comparison would die.
Awesomely Shitty
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
- slothen
- First Ancestral Sloth
- Age: 37
- Posts: 2558
- Joined: Sep 12, 2006
- Location: Indianapolis
- Gender: Male
the angel battles are used as a vehicle for character development. I'd stick with working on the Misato/sachiel parallelisms and forget the rest.
God, Apparently you all have been discussing Q since November. Catching up on the discussion is harrowing.
MAL Profile
MAL Profile
- Mr. Tines
- Administrator
- Age: 66
- Posts: 21376
- Joined: Nov 23, 2004
- Location: This sceptered isle.
- Gender: Male
- Contact:
slothen wrote:the angel battles are used as a vehicle for character development.
http://www.angryflower.com/evange.html
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics &c.|MAL|𝕏|🐸|🦣
Avatar: art deco Asuka
Avatar: art deco Asuka
- AuraTwilight
- Angel
- Posts: 3334
- Joined: Mar 16, 2008
- Location: Za Warudo
Re: (Much) Further Analysis of the Sachiel/Misato Parallelis
NAveryW wrote:The parallelism should be just as obvious for Shinji's fight against Shamshel... if it's translated the right way. I didn't actually realize it until Rebuild, but Kensuke intended for his statement "Being hit like that must have really messed him up" to refer to Shamshel's attack a couple of seconds before he said it, but Toji misinterpreted him and snapped back "Shut up!", assuming Kensuke was referring to when Toji punched Shinji. The line has a double meaning that works equally well in both contexts. I saw the dub of the episode first, and unfortunately ADV messed up the ambiguity by having Kensuke specifically say something along the lines of "That punch you gave him must have really messed him up".
The fansub that I watched of Rebuild had the same translation. And Shamshel didn't actually hit him, so...maybe there's no double meaning at all?
Gamer_2k4
- The Bastard King
- Tokyo-3 Resident
- Age: 36
- Posts: 1236
- Joined: Nov 10, 2006
- Location: Colby-Sawyer College
- Gender: Male
- Joseph the PRPD
- Elder God
- Age: 30
- Posts: 6339
- Joined: Dec 19, 2008
- Location: League City, TX
- Gender: Male
Re: (Much) Further Analysis of the Sachiel/Misato Parallelis
NAveryW wrote:I saw the dub of the episode first, and unfortunately ADV messed up the ambiguity by having Kensuke specifically say something along the lines of "That punch you gave him must have really messed him up".
Well Matt Greenfield had said they didn't get accurate translations...
But whatever.
Cheese wheel in the U.S. Coast Guard.
- Oedipusfoot
- Ireul
- Posts: 663
- Joined: Jan 17, 2009
- Contact:
- Reichu
- Admin Emeritus
- Posts: 24046
- Joined: Aug 21, 2004
- Location: Sailing for the white shores
- Gender: Female
- Contact:
Re: (Much) Further Analysis of the Sachiel/Misato Parallelis
Gamer_2k4 wrote:The fansub that I watched of Rebuild had the same translation. And Shamshel didn't actually hit him, so...maybe there's no double meaning at all?
That Kensuke was taking a swipe at Toji here always seemed obvious to me...
Episode #03 Platinum wrote:KENSUKE:
And what is Nerv's most important weapon? It's the robot
the new kid pilots. He protected us the other day,
but you hit him pretty hard. Twice!
If he refuses to pilot the robot, we're all going to die.
Don't you have a duty to watch him fight?
TOJI:
Ah, whatever. You sure are upfront about what you want, ain't you?
*****
TOJI:
What the hell?! He's already losing!
KENSUKE:
It's all right.
Misato:
I'm sending you a spare rifle. Take it! Shinji? Shinji?
KENSUKE:
Oh, man! Being beaten up must have really messed him up.*
TOJI:
Shut up!
* Kensuke says, 「やっぱ殴られたのが効いてるのかな…。」 Literally, this is something like, "Figures that getting punched would have an effect on him, huh..." The verb of violence here seems to directly imply the use of fists. Kensuke's "yappa" indicates that he's observing an anticipated result. Overall, it's pretty clear what he's referring to.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests