Gendo's Original Ambitions

[Cesternino53]

So we all know that from the CE in 2004 onward, Gendo was pretty much interested only in reuniting with Yui. On the other hand, we also know that Gendo was involved with Yui/Seele/Gehirn well before that (He started dating Yui in '99, but I assume he knew of her and her "connections" beforehand).

So was Gendo originally(again, pre-Contact Experiment) on board with initiating Seele's Insturmentality? Or had Yui somehow recruited him to help her stop them?

This may have been adressed before but I did a couple different searchs and didn't find anything so...

[Ornette]

I could have sworn there was a thread about this already, am I thinking of ANF?

So we all know that from the CE in 2004 onward, Gendo was pretty much interested only in reuniting with Yui. On the other hand, we also know that Gendo was involved with Yui/Seele/Gehirn well before that (He started dating Yui in '99, but I assume he knew of her and her "connections" beforehand).

So was Gendo originally(again, pre-Contact Experiment) on board with initiating Seele's Insturmentality? Or had Yui somehow recruited him to help her stop them?

This may have been adressed before but I did a couple different searchs and didn't find anything so...

The thing is, Gendo didn't propose the Human Instrumentality Project to the "committee" until a week after Yui's CE. Before all this Gehirn stuff, it is intimated that Gendo got close to Yui in order to get in with Seele (perhaps at first). Before Yui's CE, she talked with Fuyutsuki about her plan and how Fuyutsuki supported her plans but not Seele's. There's also something to note is that when Gendo tells Fuyutsuki that he's going to propose the HIP to the committee, it's clear that Fuyutsuki knows about the project. So Fuyu was in the know.

So a question that I have is, what are these "plans" of Seele's, which were known before the CE and after Gendo proposes the HIP to the committee, which we know is a subset of Seele. Does Yui's plans involve 3I and instrumentality? Did Seele already know about instrumentality (but perhaps didn't know how to start it, or the inverse)?

Under these conditions, it's possible that Gendo worked out instrumentality beforehand, but didn't do anything with it until Yui was taken into Eva-01, thus giving him a purpose to both use Instrumentality to his own means and using Seele to achieve it. Yui was just along for the ride and made choice decisions along the way, her "plan". It's also possible that Yui, Seele, and Gendo was aware of instrumentality and Yui simply didn't let Gendo in on her plans. Thus the CE was part of her plan, and Gendo's ambition to use Instrumentality and Seele was also part of her plan. Gendo's proposal for Instrumentality was simply a formality.

As for what I think? I think if it wasn't for Yui's CE, both her and Gendo would be plotting against Seele, but for a different cause. It was probably Yui's belief that they wouldn't be able to stop Seele unless there was an "inside man", i.e. her, and that Gendo wouldn't go along with it if she had told him of her intentions. Thus, knowing how Gendo would react and what he would do to get her back, she went along with the CE while leaving out some key details to Gendo.

[V]

A possibility is that after getting in contact with SEELE (Gendo is power-hungry) Gendo was a loyal SEELE man...going so far as KNOWING that the Antarctica contact experiment with Adam would cause Second Impact.....but when he lost Yui, that caused him to break ranks with SEELE.

A big question is if Yui told Gendo what her plan was (she appears to have told Fuyutsuki)

***A big question this ties into of course is the Nature of the Katsuragi Expedition, which we still only have fragmentary info about.

But it would seem that it was necessary to force Second Impact to happen, because then it happened TOO EARLY, and thus actually lessened the damage.

This of course brings us to another question: was the whole Instrumentality goal of SEELE's *necessary*? Because Shinji rejected it at the end....so was it necessary to survive? Dunno.

But according to SEELE, Man had reached an evolutionary dead end and needed to do this to survive.

At the least, if Adam woke up *on his own terms* and the Angels staged the Angel-version of Second Impact, humanity would have been destroyed.

So maybe causing Second Impact before Adam was ready, ultimately helped save a large chunk of humanity. the whole "we can't move the clock backwards but we can move it fowards with our own hands"

So maybe that's why Gendo went along with it. And the Evas *were* the only way to fight the Angels so they had to be built.

But we're really not sure what he originally wanted; in either event, after losing Yui she was all he cared about.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Here's a quote from the CI:

D. In-Depth Information

Upon acquiring the Secret Dead Sea Scrolls, Seele turned once again to a creed
that, up until then, they had considered naught but the pipe dreams of their
ancestors. By putting the miracle of divinity, in the form of prophecy, within
their sights, they restored the faith. Their dogma is the Path to Adam Kadmon
-- that is, the approaching of a divinity both ageless and undying.

Seele already had some plan in place ever since they found the SDSS. But it's possible that the plan wasn't set in stone. IOW, they needed to research, and understand what they were dealing with. That being Adam. This is supported by the idea that 2I, as it went down, was probably much worse than they anticipated. I still don't know, however, if 2I was planned intentionally to lessen the inevitable damage of Adam waking up, or if it was planned intentionally so Seele and co. could begin their plans.

Either way, it's very likely that Gendo, pre-CE, was working for Seele on the Katsuragi Expedition to study Adam. By the time the CE came around, he/they probably knew enough to actually implement the HIP which, until then, was just an idea. I'm still thinking that for a long time they weren't entirely sure what they were doing. They just knew they needed to understand Adam better. They were messing with what they shouldn't be messing with, and 2I gave them all a kick in the ass (Ritsuko seems to agree with this in her 23' spiel).

It's amazing how much knowledge of the SDSS would clear up things. Knowing exactly what Seele knew from the point they found them, it would clear up so many ambiguities in terms of what they were planning.

I tend to largely agree though with Ornette's analysis - especially regarding Yui. Throughout the entire series I get the sense that Yui was 5 steps ahead of everyone. Having everything elaborately planned out before Seele and Gendo even got started.

[Cesternino53]

Oh, how I wish we knew a bit more about Gendo before 2I, namely his reasons for getting involved with SEELE in the first place. As Yojimbo mentioned, further knowledge of the SDSS would also help us understand his ambitions, and SEELE’s.

I suspect that pre-CE Gendo had a genuine interest in SEELE’s goals. Whether or not he was planning to carry out his own agenda (whatever that may have been) or simply go along with SEELE before his wife was taken from him, I have no idea.

Under these conditions, it's possible that Gendo worked out instrumentality beforehand, but didn't do anything with it until Yui was taken into Eva-01, thus giving him a purpose to both use Instrumentality to his own means and using Seele to achieve it. Yui was just along for the ride and made choice decisions along the way, her "plan". It's also possible that Yui, Seele, and Gendo were aware of instrumentality and Yui simply didn't let Gendo in on her plans. Thus the CE was part of her plan, and Gendo's ambition to use Instrumentality and Seele was also part of her plan. Gendo's proposal for Instrumentality was simply a formality.

This seems logical. After all, Gendo would have the resources to know about the HIP. And, like you all have said, Yui is really far ahead of everyone, what with all her SEELE stopping plans (using her husband to do so, I believe).

What I would like is to actually know the specifics of SEELE’s various plans. The CI says that they had three major plans that they wanted to carry out via NERV (HIP, Adam Project, Project E), but I have always been a little unclear on the differences.

[Morzella]

I defintly agree with the idea that Yui was shead of everyone eles. I always saw her as a coniveing, manitpultive git. Never really liked her much...

As for what Gendo wanted from the start I have never been sure. Personnely I suspect he was just out for power and saw this path as leading to the greater power. By being in it's presence he would be allowed oppetunity to obtain it. I never caried much for Genod either to be honest.

One theroy I have always held is that Gendo planned everything as an excuse for that one scene in EoE where he plonks a hand on Reis breast. Can't say i really belive it thouhg.

[DatDude]

My opnion of Gendo and yui ( and this is just a vibe I get nothing to really back it up ) is that yea gendo did start a relationship with her to get access to Seele. Somewhere along the way he fell in love with Yui.

Not a hard thing to do, as she was pretty kind, and probly the only person to ever really love him.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I always saw her as a coniveing, manitpultive git. Never really liked her much...

I see it differently. She had the inside track on both Seele and Gendo. She likely knew what they had planned. And here's what I've said from the beginning about 3rd Impact:

Either the Angels win, 3I happens, and we lose. If the Angels are defeated, there's nothing left to stand in Seele/Gendo's way, they initiate 3I and we lose.

There was no getting around it. Now, let's pretend Yui knew this. How could she alone ever hope to stop Seele and the Angels? Well, what better way to interfere than to transplant yourself right in the middle of the plans that directly involve both? This was her only way of controlling how 3I went down. Inevitably, she ended up giving her son the right to choose what path to take.

Now, since this isn't a Yui topic, I know, I know: "Back on topic, bitches!"

[Reichu]

My opnion of Gendo and yui ( and this is just a vibe I get nothing to really back it up ) is that yea gendo did start a relationship with her to get access to Seele.

This is the rumor that Fuyutsuki brings up in #21. Considering Fuyutsuki's prejudices against Gendo at that point, I would take it with a grain of salt.

My own feelings on Gendo are that he was always anti-Seele, and perhaps foreknowledge of Yui's "position" (ideologically, not just status-wise) contributed to his decision to approach her specifically.

(Another thing: Yui's a babe and all, but would someone with Gendo's social and romantic graces really think himself able to seduce anybody?)

I can dig up links where I've dealved into this general area, if anyone has a modicum of interest.

[NAveryW]

Reichu, keep in mind that Gendo was able to not only seduce Yui, but Ritsuko AND her mother as well.

[Reichu]

Reichu, keep in mind that Gendo was able to not only seduce Yui

Assuming he did.

but Ritsuko AND her mother as well.

No seducing with Naoko -- she'd been eyeing his bone even while Lilim-Yui was around. And Ritsuko probably jumped at the opportunity left by Mom's suicide (we're not talking manga here). Threads on those rascally Akagi ladies can be provided.

[BrikHaus]

Another thing: Yui's a babe and all, but would someone with Gendo's social and romantic graces really think himself able to seduce anybody?

That's funny, I was just about to write something very similar to this. As said in the series, Gendo isn't very adept at living with other people. It seems pretty unlikely he'd end up with someone like Yui.

keep in mind that Gendo was able to seduce [...] Ritsuko AND her mother as well.

I imagine this has something to do with "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac."

[DatDude]

@chu It was just a feeling nothing to really back it up. We could trade maybes and what if's all day about this one.

Now I must go write fan fics that treat gendo very poorly good day all

[Eva Yojimbo]

And Ritsuko probably jumped at the opportunity left by Mom's suicide (we're not talking manga here). Threads on those rascally Akagi ladies can be provided.

This is most likely correct. Given the theme in NGE for Ritsuko (fear of becoming her mother, but inevitably following in her footsteps) it only makes sense that SHE approached Gendo and fooled herself into thinking that he loved her. I've often wondered if Ritsuko ever truly "loved" Gendo, or if she just fooled herself into thinking she did because of her jealousy/hatred for her mother (y'know, because NGE doesn't have enough psyche stuff as it is).

[Reichu]

As said in the series, Gendo isn't very adept at living with other people.

FUYUTSUKI:
You're a rather coarse man, to get into a drunken brawl.

GENDO:
There was no time to talk.
They just picked a fight with me.
I'm not very good at being liked, but I am used to being treated coldly.

FUYUTSUKI:
Well, it's none of my business anyway.

GENDO:
Professor Fuyutsuki, you seem to be exactly the person I expected you to be.

FUYUTSUKI (MONO):
Yes, my first impression of him was of distaste.

......

FUYUTSUKI:
... I'll admit that he's an interesting man,
though I can't get to like him.

It seems pretty unlikely he'd end up with someone like Yui.

That would ultimately depend on Yui. I was talking about Gendo's assessment of his own ability to seduce. I doubt he would think himself very capable of such a feat, which is one of the reasons I give little credence to the Kyoto University "grapevine".

As I mention above, no seduction needed for the Akagi women.

I imagine this has something to do with "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac."

And to think, he used to be Random Nobody Rokubungi.