Intentional Overanalysis, or "S&A DID Have Sex"

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Intentional Overanalysis, or "S&A DID Have Sex"

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Postby NAveryW » Wed May 30, 2007 8:44 pm

Well, I was inspired to start this a couple of days ago after seeing the supposed "evidence" that Shinji wore a glove while masturbating. The argument looked rather convincing, but was obviously ridiculous.

Thus, I wanted to see if I could take something that was most likely, if not incredibly obviously, untrue and try to make a convincing argument that it actually did happen. And, after I've finished mine, others can add their own ideas. The more convincing the argument and the less likely the subject, the better.

So, I present my first intentional overanalysis:



Proof that Shinji and Asuka had Sexual Intercourse

Image Image
Starting right after li'l Shin-chan starts rebuilding his fallen sand empire [1], we see Asuka and Shinji in a state of coitus, with Asuka saying "Enough already! Even just the sight of you gets on my nerves!" Shinji then replies, "Because I'm just like you?" We then cut to various other mindfrak shots.

The movie itself never shows Asuka and Shinji in the same shot, but their coital position is shown in a Groundwork image. I can't remember where Reichu put that picture, but I'm sure some of you remember it.

In any case, it is commonly thought that what was shown there never actually happened, and that it was just a bizarre instrumentality mushup. However, that seems less likely when you consider that every piece of footage shown for quite some time after that (at least, the footage that takes place outside a train) actually DID happen. Granted, Shinji probably wasn't standing there while Kaji and Misato had sex, but the point is that what he was watching actually happened. Asuka didn't ask Misato to kiss her, but all of the footage shown there did happen. It was simply rearranged to create a situation that didn't occur as shown.

That may lead one to believe that Asuka and Shinji did have sex, but with different people. Perhaps Asuka and Shinji both had sex with Misato, but at different times. However, the Groundwork picture leads me to believe otherwise.

Why are they never shown in the same frame? Anno was a master at implying things without outright stating them, and the same applies here: We didn't see them together beause they didn't see each other together. Asuka didn't want to look at Shinji, as she herself stated, and Shinji was frightened to look at Asuka. If you look at the screenshot, you'll see that he's actually staring off into a different direction.

Note that, although all of the footage shown actually happened, what they were SAYING wasn't necessarily said when it occurred, as shown by other footages later in the mindfrak montage, or M^2 as it will be referred to from this point on.

Shinji, however, seemed quite recalcitrant when it came to anything sexual (at least, anything sexual involving two or more people). So, when could this have taken place? His expression and logic state that it probably happened shortly before meeting Kaworu. He was already slightly off the deep end by that point, and he had changed somewhat since rejecting Misato. And, at this point, Asuka was the only one he could talk to.

So, why is Asuka so mad? A little bit of logical thinking and the answer seems kind of obvious.

Here's what happened:

It is known from when Asuka was mentally raped that she wished Shinji had done more during their chu, and she probably felt rejected. Consequently, some time later, while everyone was gone, Asuka felt that maybe if they went further, Shinji would respond to her as a woman and take some initiative. She suggests intercourse to Shinji, and eventually he agrees. However, even mid-coitus, he still does nothing. He doesn't even freaking move or anything. Asuka, being who she is, feels personally insulted that Shinji doesn't find her "worthy". And then she gets mad. Suffice to say, it was probably the first sexual encounter either one of them had, and it was probably not the least bit enjoyable for either one of them.

Image
Considering this event, the later strangulation scene that is commonly thought to have been 3I-exclusive makes more sense. Shortly after they "finished", Asuka sits at the table dejected and depressed. Shinji tries to come in to comfort her (and himself, really), but is only met with insults and pain. Eventually, it leads to Shinji going crazy and trying to strangle Asuka. Of course, he can't go through with it. However, it's traumatic enough to Asuka that she runs away and gets ready for her "AN HERO" bathtub scene.

None of this is actually shown in the series, but of course it would never be allowed to be shown due to censorship and time restrictions. And in EoE, Anno was able to brilliantly paint an entire series of events by showing a bare minimum of what actually happened. Assuming this is what actually happened, I believe that Asuka's attempted suicide makes much more sense. The "first kiss" is considered to be of extreme importance and Shinji botched it (at least from Asuka's point of view), so imagine what it must have felt like to botch the "first lay". And, in fact, knowing this sheds a whole different light on S'sFAiBL sequence in 25'.
___________________________________________


Well, there you have it. I tried to make everything seem as convincing as possible, but of course I left out a couple of facts that make my "theory" much less likely, such as the fact that Asuka was staying at Hikari's house when this would have happened.

Now that I'm finished, It's your turn to respond and make some overanalyses of your own.
Last edited by NAveryW on Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:51 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby BrikHaus » Wed May 30, 2007 8:49 pm

I'd just like to say that I've actually always thought this was the case. Hence, why I'm an Asuka/Shinji shipper. Good job, NAvery. Very well thought out and quite interesting. :D
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Re: Intentional Overanalysis, or "S&A DID Have Sex&

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Postby DatDude » Wed May 30, 2007 8:54 pm

NAveryW wrote:Well, I was inspired to start this a couple of days ago after seeing the supposed "evidence" that Shinji wore a glove while masturbating. The argument looked rather convincing, but was obviously ridiculous.

Thus, I wanted to see if I could take something that was most likely, if not incredibly obviously, untrue and try to make a convincing argument that it actually did happen. And, after I've finished mine, others can add their own ideas. The more convincing the argument and the less likely the subject, the better.

So, I present my first intentional overanalysis:



Oh yea we have needed a thread like this for long time around here lol.

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Postby slothen » Wed May 30, 2007 9:04 pm

Fanwanking. Sure its physicially possible, but there's simply not nearly enough evidence to consider this very seriously. It is a little strange to simply say the strangling scene "never really happened." Still, before this point the creators used old animation with different dialogue cut differently, and they've inserted or changed things as different characters see them (the classic example is Kaji bringing home drunk Misato and ignoring Asuka, but when the scene is revisited in ep 22 Shinji is inserted behind Kaji as seen here. The reason this scene bothers me is that it was entirely new. Furthermore, Anno has completely exempted hugely important things before (Ritsu's death, Ritsu's rape, Shinji/Misato in 23' (althought this last one is quite speculative)) Still, I think this theory is on the shakiest ground.
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Postby NAveryW » Wed May 30, 2007 9:11 pm

slothen wrote:Fanwanking. Sure its physicially possible, but there's simply not nearly enough evidence to consider this very seriously. It is a little strange to simply say the strangling scene "never really happened." Still, before this point the creators used old animation with different dialogue cut differently, and they've inserted or changed things as different characters see them (the classic example is Kaji bringing home drunk Misato and ignoring Asuka, but when the scene is revisited in ep 22 Shinji is inserted behind Kaji as seen here. The reason this scene bothers me is that it was entirely new. Furthermore, Anno has completely exempted hugely important things before (Ritsu's death, Ritsu's rape, Shinji/Misato in 23' (althought this last one is quite speculative)) Still, I think this theory is on the shakiest ground.

Keep in mind this post's sole PURPOSE was to fanwank for the fun of it. Hence, yes, it's on shaky ground. Also, this "theory" states that the strangulation scene DID happen. The commonly held theory is that it didn't.

And eh? Ritsu's death was shown pretty overtly, but when was she ever raped?
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Postby Tokpile Quohog » Wed May 30, 2007 9:16 pm

I think Ritsu's rape was more easily believable in the manga with the scene with the agents coming to get her.

This whole "Shinji and Asuka had sex" thing is taking me a while to digest. Great work.
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Postby NAveryW » Wed May 30, 2007 9:27 pm

Tokpile Quohog wrote:I think Ritsu's rape was more easily believable in the manga with the scene with the agents coming to get her.

This whole "Shinji and Asuka had sex" thing is taking me a while to digest. Great work.

Ah, it was in the manga. What volume is that? I know I'm missing ONE VOLUME, but my Eva manga are scattered all over the house and I'm not quite sure which one.
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Postby DatDude » Wed May 30, 2007 9:40 pm

Clearly the final scene in EoE was intended to show that they did in fact have sex. All be it that Asuka was less then impressed but shit Shinji was 14 he had no idea what to do I guess lol
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Postby slothen » Wed May 30, 2007 9:55 pm

by her death i refer to Gendou's line. And by Ritsu's rape there should be a link to some other forums with a complete discussion by Shin-seiki.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed May 30, 2007 9:56 pm

They did NOT have sex, its just symbolically showing what Pre-Instrumentality is like. MORE intimate then even sex!
Case in point, the "Do you want to become one with me" lines when shogoki and the tanged Shinji are within GNR, Asuka's "But if it's with you I'd rather die!" is in reference to this.
She does NOT like the thought of being Instrumentlized, of NOT being given a choice in the matter.



And come on. If Shinji can't even hold her when they kiss (15) or check up on her and see what she's feeling (09), what makes you think he'd be willing to have such close contanct with someone?
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Postby NAveryW » Wed May 30, 2007 9:59 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:They did NOT have sex, its just symbolically showing what Pre-Instrumentality is like. MORE intimate then even sex!
Case in point, the "Do you want to become one with me" lines when shogoki and the tanged Shinji are within GNR, Asuka's "But if it's with you I'd rather die!" is in reference to this.
She does NOT like the thought of being Instrumentlized, of NOT being given a choice in the matter.



And come on. If Shinji can't even hold her when they kiss (15) or check up on her and see what she's feeling (09), what makes you think he'd be willing to have such close contanct with someone?

THIS. IS. AN. INTENTIONAL. OVERANALYSIS. THREAD. I'm not saying any of this ever happened. My intention was to take something that probably didn't happen and to see how much evidence I could make up that it did.
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Postby DatDude » Wed May 30, 2007 10:09 pm

Some people are having trouble interperting the subtles of eva I see.

Remember Asuka shows a lot of intrest in Shinji over the course of the show.

She invited him into her entry plug the symbioligic implacations their are very real.
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Postby Big Panda » Wed May 30, 2007 10:30 pm

DatDude wrote:Some people are having trouble interperting the subtles of eva I see.

Remember Asuka shows a lot of intrest in Shinji over the course of the show.

She invited him into her entry plug the symbioligic implacations their are very real.


- Hey, wanna visit my.... entry-plug?
- Sure babe, just let me get my.... plugsuit.

---

I had to do this. :D
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Postby Opteron-O3 » Wed May 30, 2007 10:56 pm

Big Panda wrote:
DatDude wrote:Some people are having trouble interperting the subtles of eva I see.

Remember Asuka shows a lot of intrest in Shinji over the course of the show.

She invited him into her entry plug the symbioligic implacations their are very real.


- Hey, wanna visit my.... entry-plug?
- Sure babe, just let me get my.... plugsuit.

---

I had to do this. :D


:lol:
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Tokpile Quohog » Wed May 30, 2007 11:23 pm

NAveryW wrote:Ah, it was in the manga. What volume is that? I know I'm missing ONE VOLUME, but my Eva manga are scattered all over the house and I'm not quite sure which one.

Volume 10
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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Wed May 30, 2007 11:36 pm

THIS WHOLE THREAD & "INTENTIONAL OVER-ANALYSIS"
What a nutty idea for making conversation NAveryW. :?
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Postby NAveryW » Wed May 30, 2007 11:43 pm

THE Hal E. Burton 9000 wrote:
THIS WHOLE THREAD & "INTENTIONAL OVER-ANALYSIS"
What a nutty idea for making conversation NAveryW. :?

It's fun. :o At least, it is until people start taking you seriously.

Which is odd, because nobody takes me seriously when I'm trying to be. XD
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Postby Big Panda » Wed May 30, 2007 11:45 pm

NAveryW wrote:
THE Hal E. Burton 9000 wrote:
THIS WHOLE THREAD & "INTENTIONAL OVER-ANALYSIS"
What a nutty idea for making conversation NAveryW. :?

It's fun. :o At least, it is until people start taking you seriously.

Which is odd, because nobody takes me seriously when I'm trying to be. XD


Well, I think thats OK when it doesn't happens IRL.

....
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Postby Opteron-O3 » Thu May 31, 2007 12:01 am

The more I think about it, the more I feel sorry for them.
Last edited by Opteron-O3 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby NAveryW » Thu May 31, 2007 12:06 am

Opteron-O3 wrote:The more I think about it, the more I feel sorry for them.

You mean Asuka and Shinji, or me and Big Panda?
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