Adam's embryo, a few things concerning it...

[Reichu [ANF]]

@Niko: Just checked the script and, sadly, nothing beyond the basics. "Like, he looks at the camera/Misato, and stuff." Oh well -- the script doesn't tell us everything. (It doesn't even tell us that Rei touches Aoba before he goes splat. ;P )

Back to the Hawt Yaoi angle (if anyone actually wants to humor this poor, tormented girl any longer), I mentioned this a couple of posts back, but I have a leetle more detail now.

Okay, the conversation that Keel and Gendo rather carelessly allowed to be recorded:
Keel "'Scientists'... They put too much faith in their own ideas."
Ikari "Is it self-righteousness?"
Keel "So caught up in their dogma, they lose their grip on reality."
Ikari "Yet they are the ones who are searching for the truth. How ironic."
Keel "They are not so noble. Discovery is joy, and understanding leads to control. All they seek is their own exaltation."
Now, is there any particular reason why this conversation is here? There's the surface reason, of course -- Keel doesn't think very highly of his Sacrificial Lambs. We also hear Gendo in Sycophant Mode here, as Shin-seiki has pointed out. (Until he did, I'd neglected to notice that Gendo is in a semi-polite mode of speech, which is VERY unusual.) But is there anything deeper going on?

Well... Just to report an observation, if nothing else, Keel isn't just ratting on "scientists" ("those so-called scientists", humbug!) in general. He has a specific target in mind. "They are not so noble" is actually "Karera wa sonna, suukou na mono de wa nai", and karera = "he" + "plural suffix". If you go and listen to him, it even sounds like he's lacing the word with more venom than usual (enough that bochan_bird actually misheard the word, hence, "'God' is not so lofty an issue").

HMMM. We know what Reichu thinks ("Soon I'll be rid of that femme-boy Akira once and for all!"), but, uh, let's get some other thoughts, just in case they diverge in an interesting way. But if they coincide, that's fine with me, too.

Originally posted on: 02-Jan-2006, 12:13 GMT

[Shin-seiki [ANF]]

Interesting to hear Keel dump on the scientists, this line in particular: Keel "They are not so noble. Discovery is joy, and understanding leads to control. All they seek is their own exaltation."
We in the West are culturally conditioned to bow down to Science, and just sort of accept that 'discovery' and 'understanding' are automatically Good Things (even if that leads to H-bombs, etc.) But Keel is a quasi-religious fanatic, to whom all human aspirations and accomplishment are a waste, and humanity itself is a dead end. To him, the Katsuragi team are just another bunch of useful dupes, to be used and then sacrificed.

Also, the line quoted above sounds slightly familiar:




Substitute a few synonyms, like 'discovered' for 'found', and 'control' for 'tried to make him theirs', and you'll see why Keel's words put me in mind of Ritsuko's speech in #23; she's looking back at 2I from 15 years later, but the idea seems to be in both cases that the scientists in 2000, having discovered an ancient, gigantic "god" ("kami-sama"), behaved about as one would expect: proding and poking this "god", clapping bindings on it, and finally sticking a large fork in it. Divine retribution followed...

Originally posted on: 02-Jan-2006, 21:56 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Hmm, I didn't think of connecting the two. Interesting. Although you're using the Evil Subtitles that call Adam a "he", which is about as far from the truth as what Kaji tells Misato at the end of #15... And you remember I prepared this, too, right?

So, Shin-seiki, no thoughts on the "hand-grabbing shots"? (See few posts back.) And nobody has any thoughts on the "karera" bit?

PUFF!

Originally posted on: 02-Jan-2006, 22:15 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

I've bothered to read through the most of the thread from the start, and think this concept of Kaworu's childhood is fascinating.
Out of curiosity do any of you play Xenosaga? Because the whole Keel-Kaworu relationship in a way reminds of the Ziggy-MOMO relationship (in a non-dirty way.) I don't know why this is, maybe I'm just nuts (which is more likely).

Originally posted on: 04-Jan-2006, 23:53 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Which of the concepts are you specifically referring to? I mean, Kaworu's rearing has some rather dark 'n' dirty possibilities.

I haven't played Xenosaga yet myself. It's on the "to-do list".

EDIT: Hmm, looking back a little, I think I was over-reacting slightly (JUST slightly :p ) to the opposition. Dagnammit. I hate it when I do that!!! A lot of the replies are quite reasoned, now that I look at them again. Blargh. I must be punished for my insolence.

:goes off to beg Santa Barb for a flogging:

Originally posted on: 04-Jan-2006, 23:55 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

Well the idea that a Suicidal-cyborg (what is it with suicidal cyborgs?), is the guardian/protector of a young, powerful non-human "child". I really like what I read of the doushinji thus far, keep going, to the point where I'm drawing similar fan-art (I'm an art minor). And don't get me wrong, I love both Keel and Kaworu, not to mention Ziggy and MOMO. Hell I even have a little Keel kubrick figure and the Kaworu one is on its way in the mail.

Originally posted on: 05-Jan-2006, 00:14 GMT

[gamemaster5552 [ANF]]

I have no freaking idea.

Originally posted on: 05-Jan-2006, 04:00 GMT

[gamemaster5552 [ANF]]

I've bothered to read through the most of the thread from the start, and think this concept of Kaworu's childhood is fascinating.
Out of curiosity do any of you play Xenosaga? Because the whole Keel-Kaworu relationship in a way reminds of the Ziggy-MOMO relationship (in a non-dirty way.) I don't know why this is, maybe I'm just nuts (which is more likely).

Xenosaga is a very good game I only got half way though it though before I sold my PS2. But I plan to rebuy it when I buy a PS3.

Originally posted on: 05-Jan-2006, 04:04 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

It has a lot of Eva like qualities. Always loved Ziggy, but he's so damn suicidal, I swear there needs to be a suicidal cyborg support group. Ziggy, Keel, Motoko, and half the cast of Gunslinger Girl would attend. Not a fun group of people to get stuck in a small room with.

Originally posted on: 05-Jan-2006, 05:02 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

It's at times like these when I wish I remembered where that web comic with the "artificial girls counseling group" was...

Originally posted on: 05-Jan-2006, 05:57 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Trying to divert a very off-topic discussion back into the more appropriate thread...

Then again the Adam's Embryo thread is pretty off-topic itself. It de-evolved or evolved, depends on how you look at it, into a discussion on Keel's sexual relations (btw I've read some fanfics with him having a wife...this is one that is unfinished, but is freakin hilarious http://www.fanfiction.net/s/193032/1/ ) and Kaworu's childhood.

Keel having a wife? Uhhh, well, "Akira" had one, too, and just look at him... Er, I mean, a possibility of how he could be. Yeah.

Actually, this crap isn't off-topic at all, really. Adam, Kaworu, Second Impact are all connected. Since this thread, which Magami created for her fanfic (IIRC, too lazy to check), began going into "weird places" like Keel's private life, and the somewhat less weird domain of "just who WAS the donor for that contact experiment, anyway?", any of that shiznat is game here.

Ehhh. Too bad nobody's ever going to take my more far-out ideas here that seriously. I'll have my revenge if it ends up being true.

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 02:18 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

Yup, my thread never de-evolves. It's only gotten better.

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 02:23 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

The evolution of Magami No ER's doushinji, from vaguely disturbing (at times) to pretty damn fascnating (at times). Also: is it a bad sign when you talk to your NGE Kubrick figures and Final Fantasy figures?

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 02:52 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

Don't worry, life deals me too many projects to complete before that doujin that may never come to be...I'd rather do Gundam ones or write about my on characters at the moment.

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 03:03 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Or you can do what I do and have it both ways. (Unoriginal + original characters. And most of the unoriginal ones were pretty undeveloped to start.)

I can't say I talk to any of my toys, but sometimes I hear somebody talking to me...

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 03:08 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

Well you're not as far gone as I am, one of my Bettas (that I also talk to) is named Gendo, the fish got that name because he's meaner than all of the other fish I own. You can always find someone crazier if you look hard enough, I am that person.

On a more eva related note, was Kaworu (when he hatched) a 14-year old kid or a baby. Somehow I don't see Gendo, Keel, or any of the members of Seele changing diapers, or talking in baby talk. Not that it wouldn't be funny.

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 03:12 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

"If he hatched", anyway. People don't seem to see the same things in that picture as I. Whether or not I'm right has implications for Kaworu's backstory, but I can give you my on-the-fly Reichu answer anyway.

My hunch is that Kaworu functions in typical Lilim fashion. (He even says, more or less, that he is Lilim of body.) Ages normally, blah blah blah. Although he has the FoL, so if he'd reached adulthood he probably wouldn't have gone beyond it.

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 03:19 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

So he probably "hatched" or whatever as a baby,does that make SEELE, the babysitters club? *giggles, I always suspected they were marketing to young girls after reading that thing in the commentary about the bright colors in their logo.

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 03:24 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

O.O Babysitters club.....Seele...
I love this thread. XD

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 03:26 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

Well who else would take care of Kaworu, its not like Keel can just call up a babysitter...and most nannies would be to big of a risk for them to take, so that leaves Seele. Something about Keel taking care of a baby Kaworu is priceless.

Originally posted on: 09-Jan-2006, 04:08 GMT